Cultural Filth at Ronnie Floyd’s Cross Church



/vids/Gross.mp4

Who you see in this video is Chad Reeves, Associate Minister to Students at Ronnie Floyd’s Cross Church (Springdale Campus).  The young lady is in a romantic relationship with Reeves.



The setting is the church “Student Building” on the Springdale campus. The name of the ministry is “Cross Students.”

They are dancing / singing to a song named “Right Thurr” by Chingy. The lyrics are x-rated, and include the following:

I like the way you look in them pants, see ya fine (fine)
Lil momma a quarter piece, she far from a dime (dime)
The type of girl that’ll getcha’ up and go make you grind (grind)
I’m thinkin’ about snatchin’ her up, dirty, makin’ her mine
Look at her hips, (what?) look at her legs, ain’t she stacked? (stacked)
I sure wouldn’t mind hittin’ that from the back (back)
I like it when I touch it cuz she moan a l’il bit
Jeans saggin’ so I can see her thong a l’il bit
I know you grown a little bit, twenty years old, you legal
Don’t trip off my people, just hop in the regal
I swooped on her like an eagle swoopin’ down on its prey
I know you popular, but you gon’ be famous today

This is the staff at Floyd’s church. This is the campus at Floyd’s church. Maybe a baptismal confetti cannon isn’t a laughing matter and is an indication of a much deeper problem.

Do we want Ronnie Floyd as the next Southern Baptist president?

Oh, and by the way… this is just the beginning. More reporting on the immoral #DOWNGRADE and culture of filth at Floyd’s church will be revealed in coming days.

God help us.






 

[UPDATE: Cross Church has Canerized this video from their Facebook Page. Thankfully, it’s still uploaded here at Pulpit & Pen. Let’s see if Cross Church makes a statement as to why they Canerized the video; hopefully it’s because they can openly admit this type of ungodliness will not be permitted in the future and not just a reaction to criticism]


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128 Responses

  1. Shauna Bryant says:

    I am a member at an independent elder led (no CEO’s) Reformed Baptist church. Thank God. The SBC has been a mess for sometime. We have lots of friends who are in churches who are affiliated with the SBC. Many of their churches have been rethinking that position in recent years. The song lyrics were disgusting & anyone using them in our church would have been facing church discipline (gasp – we do that!) , serious counseling & possible excommunication (depending on whether they honestly repented) That kid in the video (red shirt) looks pretty young (like 13 or so), both Chad and his girlfriend were, well…. there are just no words to describe how ridiculous those two looked. That anyone there thought this was a good idea just goes to show how utterly lacking they are discernment, biblical conduct, common decency….I can stop now.

  2. JanAlexander says:

    I agree with everything shauna said. The worldliness of the church in general today is appalling!! It seems to get worse and worse on a daily basis. Yes, J.D., ” merciful God, help us!!!

  3. rhology says:

    My favorite part is the little kids sitting and watching.

  4. Wow! I has actually just read the 23rd chapter of Jeremiah right before reading this post about the worldliness of the youth leadership at Ronnie Floyd’s church. Check this out:
    “For both prophet and priest are polluted; Even in My house I have found their wickedness,” declares the LORD.” (Jeremiah 23:11 NASB)

  5. “Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.” James 4:4

    Yes, these are christians befriending the world by partaking of its darkness – there is no light in them. Grievous pack of wolves; not loving the truth so as to be saved.

  6. You know, in watching the video, I am not seeing the cause for concern. The dancing is (at worst) silly. I can’t make out the lyrics, so I have no idea what they are beyond the writer printing them. If the lyrics ARE what the writer says they are (and these same lyrics appear on the dance game these people are apparently playing), then we have an issue.

    Otherwise, this smells political and raises an even bigger issue regarding the author.

    • JD Hall says:

      I can assure you (as could 30 seconds of your own research) that these ARE the lyrics of the song. “Smells political” is not an excuse for worldling behavior.

    • lisagray191 says:

      I really don’t want my teenage daughters being taught in church it’s appropriate to move their hips suggestively, nor do I want my son watching it. I’m also pretty sure those kids know or have idea of what the lyrics of that song are. Here’s another link to the lyrics in case you don’t trust Jordan’s http://rapgenius.com/Chingy-right-thurr-lyrics This isn’t political it’s a disgusting display of worldliness in the church.

    • “The dancing is at worst silly”? Really? Is there any type of movement with body that you would consider sexually suggestive and tantalizing? If this type of hip-thrusting does not fall within your criteria of sexually explicit, if not at least suggestive, then exactly what type of dancing goes too far in your opinion? Be specific (without being pornographic) in your description of what that dancing movement would look like?

  7. Red says:

    He’s playing a game called Dance Central 2. It is rated T for Teen. This rating is giving for, according to their website:
    Content is generally suitable for ages 13 and up. May contain violence, suggestive themes, crude humor, minimal blood, simulated gambling and/or infrequent use of strong language.

    • JD Hall says:

      This is the second verse, which is what you hear in the video:

      She be shoppin’ in Frontenac
      Just look at her front and back
      Man she so stacked and she know that I want that
      Her man, he’s so whacked girl can i taste yo cat
      Gave her three hundred to strip, like buyin’ a throwback
      She stay in the club,(club) I can be seein’ she got it honest
      In real life, girl remind me of Pocahontas
      She be at events, (yeah) so I’m impressed when she pass (yeah)
      All the high rollin’ cats wanna pay for that ass
      Ain’t no half steppin’, (steppin’) she strapped wit a nice weapon (weapon)
      Trick, it’s against the law for her to move them hips
      If you ever seen her dirty, your mouth gon’ drop
      Worldwide fools probably tell you this off tops

  8. Matt Davis says:

    Just when you think it cant get much worse, it does, and then this guy ^ leaves a brilliant comment..

  9. Matt Davis says:

    “Sword and sacrifice” that is.

  10. Matt Davis says:

    Yeah your right, its just some good old fashioned dancing and hip hop music all designed to get the kids ready to hear about Jesus. Clearly this whole article reveals that “bigger issue” with the author and his political agenda…

  11. And the “good old fashioned dancing . . . designed to get kids ready to hear about Jesus” is nothing new. Clearly the focus here is on Ronnie Floyd, candidate for SBC president, however the same sort of thing is going on in your Baptist colleges as well, to wit:

    Lyrics to “Party House Rock”
    In the club party rock, lookin’ for your girl,
    She on my jock (huh) non-stop when we’re in the spot
    Booty move the weight like she owns the block
    Where I drank I gots to know
    Tight jeans, tattoos cause I’m rock and roll
    Half black half white, domino
    Gain the money Oprah Doe!

    Yo!
    I’m running through these hoes like Drano
    I got that devilish flow rock and roll no halo
    We party rock yeah! that’s the crew that I’m repping
    On a rise to the top no lead in our Zeppelin
    Hey!

    Party rock is in the house tonight (whoa)
    Everybody just have a good time (yeah)
    And we gonna make you lose your mind
    Everybody just have a good time

    Let’s go

    Party rock is in the house tonight
    Everybody just have a good time (I can feel it baby!)
    And we gonna make you lose your mind
    We just wanna see you… shake that!

    Every day I’m shuffling
    Shuffling shuffling

    Step up fast and be the first girl to make me throw this cash
    We get money, don’t be mad, now stop – hating’s bad

    One more shot for us
    (Another round)
    Please fill up my cup
    (Don’t mess around)
    We just wanna see
    (You shake it now)
    Now you home with me
    (You’re naked now)

    After this video was exposed, the professor wasn’t fired, she was promoted to Dean of the School of Arts and Sciences. She remained in this position until she went to the Board of Trustees about ethical issues (!!!???) with the Shorter president and provost. She was then summarily fired.

  12. Shane Dodson says:

    “Let’s see if Cross Church makes a statement as to why they Canerized the video; hopefully it’s because they can openly admit this type of ungodliness will not be permitted in the future and not just a reaction to criticism.”

    When you use terms like “Canerize,” it sounds as though you have already reached a conclusion as to why they pulled the video.

    • JD Hall says:

      It doesn’t take much longer to make a simple statement as to why the video was pulled as does to actually pull the video. I think we would have seen it by now, unless Cross Church is running a poll through a sample of church members as focus group to determine what the most acceptable course of action is.

  13. “Cross Church has Canerized this video from their Facebook Page. Thankfully, it’s still uploaded here at Pulpit & Pen. Let’s see if Cross Church makes a statement as to why they Canerized the video; hopefully it’s because they can openly admit this type of ungodliness will not be permitted in the future and not just a reaction to criticism”

    You use a word like “Canerzied” and then question whether or not the pulling of the video was legit?

    Sounds like you’ve already decided on that issue.

  14. jdlashley says:

    Reblogged this on A True Faith and commented:
    I am taking this to my blog. It saddens me to see such taking place within the denomination I grew up in.

  15. Thomas S. says:

    It looks like the participants are playing an xbox game or something similar. The lyrics aren’t audible on the video and we don’t know if the participants are affirming or even aware of the lyrical content.

    I’m of the conviction that you, J.D., are basically looking to find fault in every person of prominence. Your fruit speaks much louder than the participants in this video,

    Oh, and if you even care, I’m no longer involved in the SBC because people like you are exhausting and discouraging to associate with.

    • JD Hall says:

      First, listen to the audio more carefully. I believe in you. Secondly, your assertion that dancing to the music is not an affirmation of its lyrics are intellectually beyond comprehension. If criticism of ungodliness is the reason you have left the SBC, then good riddance to you.

  16. Thomas S. says:

    Thanks, you angry pseudo-Christian. I’m glad to be free from fundamentalist oppression. Moral requirements without relational concerns or investments.

  17. Thomas S. says:

    Amazing how you criticize ungodliness and then exude ungodly vitriol. I’d say I believe in you, but I know better. Pharisees are miserable people.

  18. Thomas S. says:

    The love Jesus conveyed toward people was usually pretty evident. Your love for people is constantly, conspicuously absent. Letter of the law anger is indeed the fruit of a Pharisee.

    • lisagray191 says:

      Was God not displaying “letter of the law anger” when He killed the entire world, save eight or when Jesus cleansed the temple of the money changers?

  19. JD Hall says:

    Horse-whip anger, no doubt, you would call “Letter of the Law” anger. Jesus beat people mercilessly because the “zeal for his father’s house consumed him” in that His house, which was to be a house of prayer, was being profaned. Now please, read the Pharisee post I generously gave you so that you can understand the error of the Pharisees and play the card properly next time.

  20. Thomas S. says:

    “Mercilessly” is your interpretive assertion. Even so, while anger has a place in Christian life, so does gentleness. Jesus was gentle and gracious with the adulteress woman. You never seem to show anything but anger, so I’m just turned off by you and your kind.

  21. JD Hall says:

    Jesus was merciful with poor pagans that didn’t know any better. He treated those who were supposed to have been the religious leaders quite differently. Please, continue to be “turned off” by me and my kind. You keep saying that like I have a man-pleasing theology and I would care for some reason.

  22. Thomas S. says:

    Certainly. I have no doubt that you consider me hell-bound and yet aren’t burdened or concerned whatsoever. That used to surprise me, but it’s par for the course amongst modern evangelicals.

  23. JD Hall says:

    I am not so concerned about your salvation that I would drag my Savior’s Bride through the mud to conform to your wicked and carnal sensitivities or entertainment preferences.

  24. Thomas S. says:

    Are you concerned about my salvation at all?

  25. Shauna Bryant says:

    JD Hall faithfully & regularly preaches the Gospel – you are free to listen to it and your salvation is up to God. Thomas, aren’t you interested enough in your salvation to listen to the gospel? Or if saved (and just incredibly immature) do you prefer to just take up your time attempting to discern issues your statements show you aren’t biblically knowledgeable in? Perhaps you ought to quit embarrassing yourself and read the scriptures so you can become more familiar with them. You will find joy in that!

  26. Thomas S. says:

    How do you know I’m not saved? Or haven’t listened to the Gospel? Actually, J.D. ought to be embarrassed for being this close to a willing conversant and not sharing any salvific encouragement or compassionate engagement.

  27. Shauna Bryant says:

    Thomas, You clearly aren’t reading carefully or are you just arguing for arguments sake? Neither is flattering. I put forth either (that you were or were not saved) as a possibility in my statements since I did not know. Additionally, I wished you a cause for joy in the scriptures – you do realize that was a nice thing…? Well, that’s all.

  28. John says:

    Is this blog associated with the Westboro Baptist church? With this hate and damnation you’re preaching here I can only assume so.

  29. JD Hall says:

    Yes. This is EXACTLY like Westboro. Good call.

  30. Shauna Bryant says:

    As a responsible Christian parent I would NEVER allow that song to be played for my kids. Heck, even my non christian but responsible parents wouldn’t have let us listen to that garbage. In fact none of my unsaved family members would allow their teens to listen to this. And in a church setting…listening to music that objectifies women as sex objects and men like disgusting pigs – are you kidding me? For kids? I’ll tell you what…as I said before, anyone who thinks it is OK for their children to have this garbage in their minds is sick. But that is what depraved people see as ‘harmless fun for the kiddos’. Glad my Christian, home schooled kids have Godly things to fill their minds with!

  31. Jonathan but my friends call me yeti cause I'm hairy like a Sasquatch...can I say that on here says:

    Wow! Unbelievable! I’m so disgusted! Not by the video, but by your demeaning, arrogant, better than thou tone. First off, you can not understand the lyrics in the song being played in the video. You can’t. Fact. So how do you know what song is being played? Is it one of you faves or did you ask someone, “hey what song is this?” Because let’s face it the audio in the video is terrible.

    Secondly, all I am getting from your posting is that you are not a fan of Ronnie Floyd. You are making assumptions and filling in blanks with a preconceived notion. You, I’m sure, do not know chad reeves or his heart for Jesus and I’m positive that you do not know what role he is playing in leading people to Jesus. In fact all you are doing is the exact opposite of what Christ has called us to do, to go and make disciples. You see, tearing down some one and making false accusations about ones character isn’t loving someone. Wait doesn’t the bible say you shouldn’t sleep, but instead before the sun goes down call them out, not on a blog, but in person and say (paraphrasing) hey bro saw this in your life and as your brother in Christ I don’t believe you are representing Christ. Isn’t that what it says or are your skipping that part? Or is it that you are a wolf in Sheeps clothing? Disguise yourself as a beleiver but in reality your are ready to pounce on anyone who isn’t 100% by the law of the land . Didnt the bible have peole like that? oh wait yea they were the pharisees who plotted to get jesus arrest and crucified. #Fakers #hisplanthewholetime #jesuswins

    Someone asked earlier if this was politically motivated or connected to Westboro baptist and you laughed and said no you weren’t connected. But let’s be honest, are you promoting Jesus through this? No your not. So in all honesty you’re not far from Westboro. You see, guys screaming at people on street corners saying your a sinner going to hell, usually doesn’t get people to go holy crap I suck and need Jesus! It does the opposite, and they think wow that guy is a major jerk, actually they probably cuss, but I love Jesus so I don’t do that right, wink wink. You sir are doing the same thing. Non believers are not gonna read your blog and go “omgosh that pastor guy, wow what a sinner!” No they’re gonna go, “wow this JD Hall guy he’s exactly why I don’t go to church, he’s tearing into a pastor and saying his church is a fake! Can you imagine what he would say to me? I’m just a guy who drinks to much and sleeps with his girlfriend.” Or maybe they’ll think “wow Christians bashing Christians, what a joke.” Either way sir, your propaganda is out of line and out of touch with reality and frankly unbiblical. Get off your high horse, carry your cross and preach grace peace mercy forgiveness. Not bash other Christians. Hey mr reeves, if you read this and I ever see you face to face ill be sure to shake your hand, thank you for your commitment to Christ and young people and then ask you to teach me some dance moves! Dude has it goin on! And you mr jd hall! If I ever meet you face to face, I’ll buy you a cup of coffee and tell you about the Jesus I know! The one who sits and talks to prositutes and loves them enough not to say you’re a dirty sinner but to say, I have this gift called grace and its free and brings life and salvation! You should read about him! It’s fascinating!

    Sincerely
    Yeti

    Ps: don’t be jealous of my nickname!

  32. Mark says:

    It’s a little hard to follow when the rhetoric being sling-ed in this thread is combined with sarcasm.

    I’m glad you recognized that much of Christ rebukes were directed toward judgmental wicked “religious” leaders (who weren’t sinless) who focused on the sins of the people holding them in bondage. (I refer them as the Pharisees)

    Does this thread embrace much of the beliefs and Methodologies of Westboro?

  33. JD Hall says:

    Well, considering that we’ve not said that God hates anyone and we haven’t protested any funerals, I’d say this is nothing reminiscent of Westboro, either in beliefs or in methodologies.

    However, I have plainly and directly called this behavior sinful, and given that this was done as the Saints were gathered in the church, even rises to the level of blasphemy. This is clearly a Biblical admonishment and call to repentance.

    However, in churches like Ronnie Floyd’s, that have adopted the seeker-friendly church growth strategy which entirely ignores the doctrine of repentance (and therefore offers a practical denial of the Gospel call to salvation) and the doctrine of sanctification (Christian holiness), pointing out sin like I have done seems entirely new, startling, and bizarre. I can see why, in an antinomian, unsanctified place like Cross Church and among its membership and defenders (like yourself), this would seem to be a completely new religion I’m espousing.

    It’s not new. But I’m afraid that it IS completely different from your own. Again, concerning your charge of Phariseeism, please familiarize yourself with the Pharisees. At no point did Jesus rebuke them for insisting on personal holiness. Jesus rebuked them for misunderstanding the Scriptures because of their ignorance thereof. In order to make the charge of Pharisaical behavior, you would need to illustrate that I have misunderstood or misapplied the Scriptures in calling the type of filth and profanity exhibited in the above video and that it was, indeed, not sinful. Can you do that?

    What this is, for the world reading this blog as a witness, a testimony that evangelical Christianity is easily as wicked as the lost world around it. And when you expose such sin and even blasphemous behavior in the House of God (the saints), those professing Christ are at least as offended as those professing no Christ.

    This is, my friends, the Modern Day Downgrade.

  34. Mark says:

    JD,

    Do you think the Westboro bunch was seeking suffering and persecution in the way they attempted to combat sin?

    I’ve clearly witnessed YRR preaching that clearly was works based and “followers” were suppose to wear their persecution on their sleeves for all to recognize in order to show they were saved.

    • JD Hall says:

      I’m not a Westboro expert, but it seems to me, Mark, that there’s some truth to your suggestion that Westboro prides themselves on supposed martyrdom. Likewise, I’ve often said that people will hate you for preaching truth but make sure that people don’t hate you just because you’re obnoxious.

      However, I would also suggest to you that there is virtually NO calling out for repentance and exposing of sin today that will not receive unto you anger and the gnashing of teeth. This is no different than in Jesus’ day, who was crucified by his own followers; or consider his cousin the Baptizer, who was killed for calling out the king for his adultery. These people will always say, “It’s not what you say, it’s how you say it.” Again, I submit to you that the opposite is true. No matter how much sugar is put on it, calling sin “sin” and naming names in the process will receive the type of gnashing teeth that I’m experiencing here. What is of concern is not when the heathen rage over it, but when professing Christians rage over it. The type of response I’ve received from Floyd followers (everything to making light of the video or the sin, claiming that dancing to it is not the same as endorsing the lyrics, to playing the Pharisee card) proves the validity of my assertion – this indicates a church that has not been taught the concept of Christian holiness.

      Concerning the preaching of the YRR, I don’t doubt you’ve heard “works-based” stuff. It’s a big tent and some people don’t belong in it. Preaching justification that is works-based is heresy. Preaching sanctification that is works-based, without the recognition that it is the Holy Spirit who “works in us both to will and to do” steals God’s glory. And yet, that’s not particularly relevant to this discussion. The point is “this is sin.” This behavior in God’s House and among his people is unacceptable. Nobody’s trying to become a martyr hear. Modern professed Christians hate repentance so much, we might just become a martyr the way it looks.

  35. Steve J says:

    I know most people cant seem to deal with facts but, a game with very inappropriate lyrics is being played in the church. Looks to have been encouraged. Just those simple FACTS =Somebody has some BIG BIG explaining to do. Now, if you want to go cry and whine and talk about judging and Pharisees, go right ahead. I deal with FACTS and the Truth. Grow up!

  36. Amazing! People who claim to follow Christ have no problem with the vulgar and demeaning sexual and sinful content of the song. Many non-christian parents I know would not let their children listen to this songcabout gratoitious sex. Certainly shows that some people love the world and the things of the world 1John 2:15-17. And it is ironic JD that some here are publicly calling you out and using judgmental laungage for publicly calling out reeves and judging factual evidence done in public and posted to the internet … Wow double standard on their part. According to yeti and mark they should have privately rebuked you but I guess their rules change. We now have people claiming the name of Christ calling good evil and evil good. Jesus certainly set down with sinners but He called them OUT of their sin. And He certainly has commanded those called out to live in the light not the darkness of this world. This song is obviously in the dark recesses of the world. But hey reeves is cool and that’s what matters right?

  37. hogwildfanman says:

    This behavior is common at Cross Church, and I think JD has done something that may not be popular, but is necessary. Many of you are demonizing him for dragging Ronnie Floyd in to this, but Ronnie Floyd is the very reason it is important to talk about now. The man will very likely be the next President of the SBC and will lead not just a handful of campuses but the convention as a whole. How else are we to measure his competency as a leader, if not by the current organization he oversees?

    I was once a part of Cross Church (formerly First Springdale) and I am glad I am no longer. Wonderful people, but lousy leadership that never confronts sinful behavior. Lots of sermons on giving and prosperity. Very little about holiness and discipleship. Everything is about the numbers. Everything is about the resume. Don’t believe me? Look at the latest article on Floyd in BP. In every answer he points to himself, and what he has done in the last few years, rather than what he believes God would have him do. He isn’t running to lead. He is running to win. He doesn’t know how to do the former. This is why he has increased his giving so much since his defeat in 2006. His lack of giving was the reason he lost, so he did what he needed to in order to make a comeback. Because he wants to lead? Or because he wants to win?

    Now, back to the video. As a parent, I would not be ok with this behavior from someone who is supposed to be an example of Christ-likeness to teenagers. While the audio muffled on this recording, I am sure it was very clear in person. Stupid song is stuck in my head just from watching this short clip. Now imagine that 12 year old boy on the couch singing all day about how he “sure wouldn’t mind hittin’ that from the back.” Purely sinful.

  38. Garrett Crawford says:

    This is honestly funny. I normally would expect a better handling of God’s Word from a pastor, but sadly your kind of theology hasn’t died out yet. Since you have clearly not done much reading of Scripture, let me point you to a command that is actually in the Bible. “Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor.”

    • JD Hall says:

      If you could explain how I’ve done that, that would be GREAT.

      • Garrett Crawford says:

        Sure. First of all, your legalistic garbage is sickening to any half-way decent Christian. If you don’t like the music or dancing, that’s fine, but claiming that it’s sinful IS a sin in it of itself. So, you are bearing a false witness in the sense that you are spreading false lies about pastor Floyd’s church, claiming that they are sinning when they are clearly not. Secondly, why don’t you take a look at Matthew 18. If you have a problem with your brother, go to him. But nope, you have to make some kind of disgusting public announcement that holds no weight and degrades the body of Christ.

        • JD Hall says:

          You did not, even marginally, come close to demonstrating I’ve given a false testimony. You accused me of legalism for believing x-rated lyrics are sinful. You’ve admonished me with Matt18, which is impossible because Floyd is not a member of my church (although if we were, I assure you we would follow these prescriptions for church discipline) and it’s unnecessary because this is an already-public video and therefore a private admonishment is not prescribed. And yet, you’ve not demonstrated that I’ve given a false testimony. So instead of grasping at straws because you don’t recognize simple biblical standards for holiness in conduct, you level a charge you can’t begin to substantiate. Try again.

        • Seems youvhave publicly confronted JD here. Why did you not use Matt.18 since that is what you believe. Alsoxare you saying tgevlyrics of that sobgxwgichcwas played in the church body ifcyoung people is NOT sin? If so then nothing is sin to you. It would seem you have missed the sin of ” no unwholesome speech and no course talk or suggestions. Also the command to flee all sexual immorality which the entire song glorifies without a doubt. Seems you have made a false accusation against JD. Please be pointed how is the song lyrics and the use of them by a so called preacher NOT sin? And why do you suggest JD use Matt 18 and you do not hold yourself accountable?

          By the way you misinterrupt Matt 18 if you use correct biblical interrupitation. But hey don’t last the facts stand in your way

        • JD Hall says:

          NOTICE WORLD: This Floyd-defender refuses to call an x-rated song a sin, and insists only a legalistic would suggest so. And yet, he clearly says that calling it a sin is a “sin.” The only sin he can recognize is one calling something sinful. This is the type of Downgrade theology Cross Church represents. It is a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof.

    • “A better handling of God’s Word”…. Lol really? While you deny it you falsely accuse a brother of mishandling it? Go back to your Xbox

      • You nailed it JD….or him….

      • Garrett Crawford says:

        Haha. Go back to MY xbox?? You’re the kind that says “you’re not using the right biblical interpretation. Luckily, people like you get no credibility in the evangelical world. We’d be a sad bunch if so

        • Once again, you slaughter Matt. 18. Yes you are mis interrupting. However for the safe of the argument IF JD needed to use it with Floyd then why do YOU not have to use it with JD? Oh I forgot you xbox boys only apply the rules you make up in your head about Scripture. You very well fit “having a form of godliness but denying the power thereof”. And if you say the lyrics to that song are NOT sinful you are a liar and now a false teacher. I hope your church leaders discipline you for your lying and denial of obvious sin. But of course your above any church discipline and probably go to a church where nothing is sin but calling sin sin. You certainly are a good example of False Church , False Christian in Garrett Crawford folks

      • Garrett Crawford says:

        By the way, I would go back to my Xbox, but I might hear some x-rated material. You wouldn’t want that, would you?

        • JD Hall says:

          I wasn’t the one that left the comment, but no. I would not want you to go back to that game with those lyrics. That game is for lost people and worldlings, not the people of God. God forbid it!

  39. Garrett Crawford says:

    So, let me get this straight. If a video is public, it’s okay for you to take it and twist it up and make it look like something it’s not, and then it justifies ignoring the Bible. Man, you have greatly missed the point of the Gospel. I feel sorry for you. You have missed the point in such an astonishing way that it’s difficult to even know where to begin with you. You are hurting people and their reputations because you think you are doing some sort of service to God by doing so. You are legalistic my friend. VERY legalistic. Nowhere in Scripture does it say anything about what kind of music you should listen to, dancing, etc. If you wanna keep making up rules and implementing them into the Bible, go ahead, but be careful how you go about using your sinful garbage to ruin others’ reputations.

    • JD Hall says:

      Garrett, I did not, as you suggest (1) twist [the video] up or (2) make [the video] look like something it is not. I posted the video uncut, unedited, and its entirety. I gave the context; who was in the video and where the video was filmed. No one has “ignored the Bible.” Now, if you just so happen to go to a church with vulgar xbox games and confetti cannons, let me explain Matthew 18. In the context of church discipline, if a brother has offended you personally, you are to go to him privately. The matter is only between the two of you, and there it should remain unless he refuses to listen to you. Then, another is to go as a witness. If they continue to ignore you, you take it to the entire congregation within your local church and the church needs to discipline them for not listening to the Body (should they not listen to the church body). First, Matthew 18 is not necessary because this is a public matter, already posted on the church Facebook page (until they Canerized it, without comment). Secondly, I can’t drag Ronnie to my church body because he’s not a member of it. It simply doesn’t apply. Now, when you say “nowhere does Scripture say anything about what kind of music you should listen to, dancing etc… you are woefully mistaken. We are to avoid this type of unwholesome language (the lyrics speak for themselves) – Ephesians 4:29. We are told “how you ought to behave in the household of God” in 1 Timothy 3, and we’re exhorted (both men and women) to be godly, sober-minded, and reverent. We are to flee the types of worldly passions sung about in that song (2 Timothy 2:22). Frankly, there’s not an orthodox church of any kind that would tolerate the type of licentiousness demonstrated in those lyrics. Again, I would challenge you in your assertion that you can find no sin in these lyrics or that it would be danced to in church, but you CAN find sin in my calling it “sin.” This is an astounding double standard. And frankly, if you are a member of Cross Church of one of those they are attempting to entertain into the Kingdom of God, you speak very poorly of their strategy and are serving to make my point.

  40. Garrett Crawford says:

    To quote your own tweet JD, “Every missed opportunity to repent is a missed opportunity to display to the world a proper response to the Gospel.” I ask that you repent of your sin of violating Matthew 18 and go confront Dr. Floyd personally.

    • JD Hall says:

      Garrett, I have explained to you in this thread why addressing already public sin publicly is not a violation of Matthew 18. If your ignorance is unconquerable, I cannot help it. I would also desire to point your attention to 1 Timothy 5:20 that goes even further; it tells us that when an elder (or Pastor, like the one dancing to this profanity in the video or a pastor like Dr. Floyd that permits it) sins, they are to be rebuked publicly as an example.

      • Garrett Crawford says:

        Yes but you have yet to explain how that is even a sin at all. Also, you’ve once again taken scripture out of context. That is in the context of an elder in your specific church, which Dr. Floyd is not a part of. Matthews words are more general, from one brother to another. If Dr. Floyd is sinning, it’s members on Cross Church who should call him out. Not yours. In terms of Matthew 18, you can ignore your own sin by focusing on others? It seems you’re dodging every point to confront Dr. Floyd and Chad Reeves personally.

        • JD Hall says:

          Paul was not a member of the Corinthian Church, yet he exhorted them quite publicly (through a letter designed by the Holy Spirit to be widely circulated) to amend the error and begin purging evil people from their congregation.

      • Garrett Crawford says:

        Anyway JD, I’m checking out for the night. Glad we could have this discussion.

        • JD Hall says:

          Yeah, me too. Let me lovingly exhort you to find a new church. Start with looking for one with a pastor that preaches verse-by-verse through the Bible. That’s usually a good sign. Then, talk to the pastor and ask when the last time was the church practiced discipline on a member. Start there. Best wishes.

      • Garrett Crawford says:

        Well, the same thing could be said of you. I feel the Spirit may have not been working in you.

      • Garrett Crawford says:

        Kind of an off topic question: What do you think of Al Mohler (a serious scholar who IS nominating Floyd)?

  41. I notice the false believer Garrett Crawford will not answer the questions. IF you think JD should have used Matt18 then why did YOU not use Matt 18 when confronting JD? And are you saying the lyrics to that song is NOT sin?

    • Garrett Crawford says:

      False believer? You have given no basis for what you believe at all. I, if anyone in this conversation, am in no way a false believer.

      • JD Hall says:

        Although I didn’t make this claim, I think that it was made because Christians (being filled with the spirit), detest clear and obvious sins that glorify the flesh. You see nothing wrong with listening to these lyrics (as your previous comment made very clear). I believe this is grounds enough to assume that you aren’t one who’s been transformed by the new birth. The Spirit, Jesus said, came to convict the world of sin. If you aren’t convicted by this in the slightest, it’s a safe estimation that the Spirit is not at work in you.

      • Garrett Crawford says:

        Glad to know you’re properly reaching people for Christ woodlandbaptist

        • How would know? And since you will not even acknowledge you demand from JD what you will not do, missapply scripture, twist scripture, ignore scripture, evidently your anger points to you being involved in like sin, your lack of acknowledging sin at all and your total lack of discernment it is abundantly obvious you possess not the Spirit of God. But once again, don’t let the facts get in your way. Even a lost manvwould not make the ridiculous statement, ” the lyrics are sinful but listening to them aren’t” !?!? I’m sure to you porn is sin but watching it isn’t. But that is the way a Carmel lost nan hiding in the church operates.

      • Garrett Crawford says:

        YOUR anger has clearly got the best of you. YOU are the one in need of repentance, not me. Have a nice night.

        • Lol…I’m not angry just pointing you are obviously angry about this which usually points to sinbyour unwilling to deal with, which in your case is probably conviction of your lostness and false profession and your approval of blantant sin in an angry way. You really need to read 2 John for the sake of your soul and then get a good church as God speaks to you about your condition

      • 1 John that is…typing on phone

      • Garrett Crawford says:

        I can assure you that I have been saved and redeemed by Christ. I’m sorry if you can’t see that.

      • Garrett Crawford says:

        By the way since you said my church should use discipline on me, I think your church should fire you. You in no way represent what Christianity is woodland

      • Garrett Crawford says:

        By the way since you said my church should use discipline on me, I think your church should fire you. You in no way represent what Christianity is

      • ExPlains his anger and lack of doscernment

      • Garrett Crawford says:

        It still makes me laugh that you are the one who thinks I am angry woodland church haha. You’ve got some serious issues to work out.

        • Garrett it is obvious you are angry. You said several times that youvwere done here, you had the “last word” like 3 times and at 1:08 am when most people are sleeping it bothered you so much you come back for another “last word”. You need some biblical counsel, seek itvoutside cross church and calm down.

    • Garrett Crawford says:

      But I’m not gonna do that, because I don’t know you personally and it’s not my business.

    • Garrett Crawford says:

      Also, if I am a false believer, then it’s impossible for me to violate Matthew 18, since it’s written to believers. Keep screwing up, you’re doing a great job!

    • Garrett Crawford says:

      Also, I’m saying that the lyrics to the song are sinful but listening to them is not.

    • Garrett Crawford says:

      Also, who are you to call someone a false believer? Is that your decision?

    • Garrett Crawford says:

      Give me a biblical basis for it then. Are you saying that exposing yourself to anything worldly is sinful? Ladies and gentlemen, we have heretic! He doesn’t want to engage the world for Christ! His church probably teaches, well, nothing! Probably why guys like Dr. Floyd have gained so much more credibility in the evangelical community.

      • JD Hall says:

        Good questions: Am I saying that exposing yourself to anything worldly is sinful? First, let’s define “worldly.” Worldly, as I will use the term, will refer to things that are not just “unspiritual,” for we must be exposed to unspiritual things all the time. We must eat an unspiritual restaurants and then use unspiritual restrooms. “Worldly,” in the sense that I’ll use it in answering your question, would be things that are anti-Christ, anti-God, anti-holiness, or anti-Bible. If “secular” is a neutral term, then “worldly” implies things openly hostile to God and the standards of holiness that he’s explicitly laid out for us.

        Now, is it a sin to expose yourself to anything worldly? (A) It is a sin if you are purposefully exposing yourself to worldly things (B) It is a sin if you are enjoying worldly things (C) It is a sin if you encourage others to be exposed to or enjoy worldly things. Yes, of course it is a sin to purposefully expose yourself, enjoy, or entice others to do either, of anti-Christ, anti-holiness, anti-Bible type things. For example, when Jesus tells us in the Sermon on the Mount that to even lust after a woman in your heart is to commit adultery, then buying music or enjoying music that entices one to lust by singing about having sex with a woman or what kind of undergarment she is wearing (as the lyrics of that song do), it is clearly sinful.

        “Engaging the world for Christ” (it’s odd you aren’t familiar with basic standards of Christian holiness, but know that catchphrase, I digress…) does not mean “capitulate, compromise, or sin with” the world for Christ. Being vulgar or taking part in the sins of the world is not an evangelism strategy. It means that YOU need evangelism.

        Furthermore, let me challenge your assumption that Floyd has gained credibility in the evangelical community. I don’t think there’s any kind of serious or respected scholar that would appreciate Floyd for his teaching or pastoral leadership. There are many, however, that are always impressed when a man can build such an impressive organization. Even secularists are impressed by what Floyd has accomplished. Other pastors, who also want a big church, may seek to imitate him or learn from him how to build such a large church (no doubt which is full of many worldlings). But to say “respected,” I would highly doubt that. He may very well be the next SBC president because he’s the “wonder bread” candidate. He’s handsome. He’s rich. He has a big church, and he really, really has been wanting the job for a long time. Most say it’s “his turn.” But this is not an endorsement of the man as any kind of serious exegete or disciple-maker.

  42. Garrett Crawford says:

    Also, I’m not sure you understand the basic standards for legalism

  43. Garrett Crawford says:

    Also, I really am leaving now, haha. Just want to know your opinion on mohler at some point

  44. Garrett Crawford says:

    Best wishes to you as well

  45. Mark says:

    JD,

    The lyrics of this song is inappropriate. When did this happen? Has the Associate Youth Pastor been reprimanded? Its good that Ronnie Floyd is made aware of this. I haven’t followed this so I’m not sure when Floyd found out about it and has since done anything about it or if he found out after it went viral.

    When a messenger is holding up a mirror that reveals wrong doing, I believe the messenger has done his job and that messenger needs to take a step back and allow the Holy Spirit to make the “Judgement” in how he will carry those burdens in getting them back in line. God will not allow any of us to get away with sin.

    In 2 Samuel 12 Nathan revealed David’s sin and then God did the rest.

    There are YRR Preachers that embrace a Law and Sin Centered ministry with a “repetitive” dose of repentance rather than Christ Centered and again it is surrounded by suffering theology, thereby raising doubt whether their membership is truly saved or repentant of their sins.

    Most of us can find flaws in our fellow brothers and if we focus on those individual flaws long enough we can question whether or not that person is regenerate or repentant. (especially if they lack recognizable love toward others)

    When people change from their waywardness and become saved followers of Christ, they will still sin. Anybody can lay claim they are repentant because they say they don’t practice a certain lifestyle and consider themselves Evangelist of the Gospel, but when they “accidentally” sin how can any claim they were truly repentant, if their Doctrine is an antagonistic works based Hyper-Doctrine that lacks “identifiable” love?

    In fairness, I can’t speak for you because maybe you haven’t committed a sin since you professed to being saved but you know that people in any evangelical congregation have sinned even after professing to being saved and desire to serve and please God.

    When YRR preachers embrace their ministry around message of repetitive repentance above the Love and Holiness of Christ it becomes a message on “works” or ‘self” rather than the mercy of Christ. In the end the Congregation is beat up and robbed of the joy of knowing and serving Christ or even wanting to attend that fellowship.

  46. Mark says:

    My impression with YRR, is an affiliation with New Calvinism although they may avoid the term Calvinism altogether and stick with being “Reformed” tag. Seems very broad and complex for even those who consider themselves part of the Calvinistic School.

    Christians have a sin nature and because of this the Father blessed us with the Law, for our benefit. Our inability to fulfill the Law is why Christ came and died for us if we don’t reject him. The consequences of sin is very real and we will not get away with it and because we sin, then the idea of not sinning won’t automatically give us Gods grace. (without Christ dying on the cross)

    You could be good all you want but it won’t get you to heaven. Without Grace eternal life is impossible. Ministries become imbalanced when they are focusing on the Law and Works, more than Christ.

    As for excessively revealing the sins of others, I’m beginning to wonder if you are putting more burdens on yourself rather than sharing those burdens with the Holy Spirit.

    When did this terrible display at Ronnie Floyd’s church take place and has Ronnie Floyd reprimanded his Youth Associate?

    • JD Hall says:

      Thanks for your concern. Cross Church has removed that video from their Facebook page, with no comment. In the mean time, Cross Church School of Ministry’s director’s son is indicating some of the deep, deep problems with Christian holiness and sanctification in the comment section of this post.

  47. Mark says:

    JD,

    I would delete Garrett’s comments, as it is an embarrassment. This young man (like all of us) will be held accountable for his actions.

    Publicly, you have raised a credible concern of a disgusting video, in my opinion your job (as a messenger) in this matter is over, leave the rest up to God.

    I hope in the mean time you email the Elder’s at Cross Church informing them of your disturbing correspondence with Garrett so they can offer him some counseling.

    The more this becomes magnified in Christian Media the greater the risk of taking matters in our own hands when they should be handled by the Holy Spirit and could exacerbate unnecessary strife among Christians, who profess the Gospel.

    I’m not a fan of Ronnie Floyd as I don’t know who he is.

  48. Mark Baker says:

    That’s a.great way to end that discussion mark.

  49. Darrell says:

    Just came across this thread as I have just discovered about Floyd’s election and am greatly distraught over it. I will add that I have known JD for a long time and although I don’t always agree with his methodology he is spot on with this one. I don’t understand how people, especially Christians, equate intolerance with legalism. The embracing of sin in Christians’ lives is an epidemic of the Church, but to openly allow this in church is an abomination. So open, that it’s videotaped and put on FB. And, to the guy who thought that listening to ungodly music is not a sin… then why was it removed from the FB page if they didn’t feel anything was wrong with it? That’s the question in the first place. I don’t think JD is being legalistic here at all. I think he would be the first person to say we all struggle with sin. But, the problem is when we lack conviction and divine discipline. This attitude and behavior is why people are leaving the SBC. We need conviction, not men pleasers to grow church numbers. Just came across this thread as I have just discovered about Floyd’s election and am greatly distraught over it.

  50. D Tabor says:

    Just came across this thread as I have just discovered about Floyd’s election and am greatly distraught over it. I will add that I have known JD for a long time and although I don’t always agree with his methodology he is spot on with this one. I don’t understand how people, especially Christians, equate intolerance with legalism. The embracing of sin in Christians’ lives is an epidemic of the Church, but to openly allow this in church is an abomination. So open, that it’s videotaped and put on FB. And, to the guy who thought that listening to ungodly music is not a sin… then why was it removed from the FB page? That’s the question in the first place. I don’t think JD is being legalistic here at all. I think he would be the first person to say we all struggle with sin. But, the problem is when we lack conviction and divine discipline. This attitude and behavior is why people are leaving the SBC. We need conviction, not men pleasers to grow church numbers.

  1. May 24, 2014

    […] student minister Chad Reeves, both of whom displayed their dancing skills to the x-rated lyrics in Friday’s post on this website. Behind her in the green dress is Gina Franzke, Director of Women’s and Girls […]

  2. May 25, 2014

    […] angry and downright antinomian comments from Cross Church members and attenders for re-posting a video that was already publicly displayed on the Cross Church Facebook page along with the sexually […]

  3. May 26, 2014

    […] But hey, at least it’s not Chingy, whose profane music Cross Church’s student pastor was recently seen dancing to as a part of their youth ministry […]

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