Joel Osteen Likes God…He just doesn’t like Jesus [A Twitter Survey of @JoelOsteen]

I often talk about the Christ-less Gospel of Joel Osteen. Whenever people ask me what I mean by that, I always tell them this; Joel Osteen does not talk about the Christian Gospel. Joel does not follow in the footsteps of Paul and share this message

Now, brothers and sisters, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you,which you received and on which you have taken your stand. By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.

For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, and that he appeared to Cephas, and then to the Twelve… 1 Corinthians 15:1-5

Rather, the gospel of Joel Osteen, the “good news” that he brings is that “God loves you and wants to save you from  life of mediocrity and small dreams. Therefore, if you believe in God and be obedient to him, God will give you a plan for your life that includes big dreams,  self esteem, favor, health and wealth, influence, a better job, a positive self image and a fulfilled life free of negativity”. That’s it. That’s what it’s all about. That is the sum of just about every book, every sermon, every media appearance, and every tweet of Joel Osteen, condensed into a few sentences.

That being said, there is something very important to understand about Joel Osteen: He does talk about God. A lot. You cannot accuse the man of not mentioning him because he’s all over that. Here’s the thing though- Its never really in a personal sense. Joel talk about God, but its always in a vague amorphous sense. There is certainly nothing distinctly Christian or Biblical about it. There’s nothing doctrinal or theological about the way he talks about God. Rather is an ethereal, shapeless, formless, customizable, singular being thing that is out there called God that functions like a cosmic vending machine whose sole purpose is seemingly to bless you and make your life better. Even when he mentions God, it’s not ABOUT God, but it’s about what God can do for YOU.

Why do I say “singular being”?  Simple. While mention of a “God” may be plastered all over his twitter feed, Jesus is Not. Joel Osteen rarely, if ever, mentioned Jesus. He rarely, if every, mentions Christ. This is true when you listen to his sermons, read his tweets, and listen to him on whatever talk show he’s touring. Let me give you some basic numbers

Just for kicks I did a quick survey of all Joel Osteen tweets in the last year. I can’t go further back, so we’ll stick with going back to July 8, 2013, which is a little more than a year ago. Out of Joel Osteens 806 tweets, not including any of his replies to other people, he mentions “God” 334 time.

Want to guess how many times he mentioned “Jesus”?















One time.


I figured that number seemed a little, so I exchanged the word “Jesus” for “Christ”? And know how many times Christ was mentioned?


Two times.


In the spirit of generosity I though perhaps Joel was more comfortable using his real name “Yeshua” and searched accordingly.

No times.


How about “Lord?”

One time. And it was referring to God.

So this is where we’re at. This means that Americans most influential pastor, the guy with the biggest Church [43,000 members]. One of the most well-known and most recognized pastors with the biggest platform, out of 806 tweets this last year, in a Twitter feed that is not about his personal life, but rather serves to communicate his version of theological truths about Christianity and Faith for his 2.6 million followers…Joel Osteen mentioned Jesus in some capacity 3 times.

I don’t have access to the rest of his twitter account, but if you extrapolate the numbers, going back to 2009 when he joined, out of his 11300 tweets, he mentioned the name Jesus, God in human flesh, our great God and savior who was fully man and fully God who excruciatingly bore the wrath of the father on a cross and died and rose again in propitiation for our sins- yeah that guy… he likely only got mentioned 24 times. On a Twitter feed designed to share truth about the Christian life from a supposed Christian leader who tweets 2-4 times a day.

And know what? All three were at Easter. Nothing for the rest of the year. Which of course made me wonder “Didn’t he even mention Jesus at Christmas?” Nope. These were his four Christmas eve and Christmas tweets

Now of course if you look up to some of Joel’s favorite topics and main message he likes to communicate, he references to “dreams” as in to quote a recent tweet “You’re closer to seeing that dream come to pass than you think. You may not be able to see it, but it can see you.” 48 mentions.

How about “great/greatness?” as in “You have the seeds of greatness, don’t allow something small to keep you from God’s best” 365 mentions

Or how “favor” as in “Go get your favor, your dream, your victory. It has your name on it.” 32 mentions

And you can put any othe rof his favorite buzzwords in a search bar, and you’ll get scores of hits.


But talk of Jesus..and his death and resurrection…his salvation…his shed blood and sin….the forgiveness he offers….his grace and mercy…his loving kindness- there’s nothing even remotely like that there.

Like I said, Christ-less

[Contributed by Dustin Germain]

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54 Responses

  1. hbenterprises says:

    Sounds like someone’s got a case of the Mondays!

    Joel Osteen

  2. shannybelle says:

    Here is the definition of a religious spirit:
    One with a religious spirit believes he has a mission to tear down error or what he believes is wrong.
    He immediately notices what is wrong with people, or the church rather than looking for what is right.
    He may feel as though he is truly closer to God than others, and his life or ministry is more pleasing to God in comparison.
    He will tend to be suspicious of or even oppose new moves of God.

    Sounds like the writer of this article has something to learn about an actual relationship with God and the understanding that Only God can see the heart of a man. Its not about religion by friend…its about a relationship.

    “Jesus declared in John 14; I am the way, the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father but by me. I believe that Jesus Christ alone is the only way to salvation.”

    What joel said in an interview….do a little more research.

    • Here is the definition of a religious spirit: In your following remarks, you just described the Apostle Paul.

      One with a religious spirit believes he has a mission to tear down error or what he believes is wrong. O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? Paul is correcting error in his letter to the Galations.

      He may feel as though he is truly closer to God than others, and his life or ministry is more pleasing to God in comparison. Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ. This is a very bold statement Paul made.

      He will tend to be suspicious of or even oppose new moves of God. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. Again Paul is calling out anyone who teaches anything other than what he has taught. He is even calling out the angelic host if they come teaching any other gospel.

      Sounds like the writer of this article has something to learn about an actual relationship with God and the understanding that Only God can see the heart of a man. John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that whosever believeth in Him shall not perish but have everlasting life. Was that a true statement? Or did I just teach something other than what the Apostle John and the Apostle Paul taught? Here is what I left out… that He gave His only begotten Son… the way God saves is by way of what He gave.

      Look, I dont know the writers heart, but those of us who have looked at ourselves and find nothing good. Nothing worth offering God. We are passionate about our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. I think you are too by your quoting the “no other way “verse.

      So I leave you with one of my favorite greetings from the Apostle Peter in his second letter…now this is the interlinear translation of the Greek which I think is priceless and shows the love of God as well as our brother Peter.

      “Simon Peter, a slave and an apostle of Jesus Christ to the equally precious, having obtained with us faith in righteousness of our God and saviour Jesus Christ. Grace to you and peace be multiplied by a full knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord.”

      shannybelle, you are equally precious to God.


    • Born4Battle says:

      Joel O is nothing more than HWP lite (Health, Wealth & Prosperity), a grossly heretical teaching use by money grubbing televangelists across the globe. He’s gone on record (Larry King interview) saying that he doesn’t address sin much. He plays to itching ears, preaches a false gospel that Jesus died for ‘our dreams’ and ‘our best lives now’, which the Apostle Paul pronounced anathema.

    • For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions, (2 Timothy 4:3, ESV)

    • Who is God talking to in the Book of Revelations? “The Church”, I don’t have time to commit Intellectual Suicide, the message is simple, no big words, no screaming or ranting, no confusion, no $2000 suits on it, no $500 shoes on it, no $100,000 cars on it, no Importance on who’s church is bigger, “It’s not about the Pastor or the Evangelist” It’s about The father, The Son and the Holy Spirit, AMEN. “Jesus declared in John 14; I am the way, the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father but by me. I believe that Jesus Christ alone is the only way to salvation.” <==== This is all I need along with Prayers and Love. God Bless Everyone!

  3. shannybelle says:

    I am sorry but what I see in this article is a man trying to expose what he feels are flaws in joel’s teachings. Doing a twitter survey and counting how many times joel has said God vs Jesus? It’s judgmental rather than the heart of God. Joel has given hope to a lot of people and God has chosen to use him in that way. Why does his teachings have to be like other leaders teachings? The writer is pointing out what he thinks joel is doing wrong, rather than how God is using him in other peoples lives. It is not meant to be complicated. I am sorry for being bold in this area but it lacks substance. And to be blunt there is a little bit of a religious spirit behind it. This is all my opinion. I come from a background where we speak in tongues, heal the sick, witness miracles. The source is always God, not us. God is the only one who can see our hearts. And All I see is a man (joel osteen) who loves God and wants to bring hope to His people.

    • He is influenced by SATAN and this is also the work of the true God.

    • Ron McKeever says:

      Shantybelle…your background has corrupted your spiritual thinking. Scripture warns us about trying the spirits because many false prophets are roaming the land. Remember that Christ warned that there will be those who stand before Him, claiming to have done many mighty works and miracles in His Name but He will say that He never knew them. Don’t belittle the messenger because you do not like the message.

    • This is my thought. A person would talk a lot about what they’re obsessed with, about the most important thing in their life. So for Christians, that should be Jesus Christ – Christ is where we get Christians from after all. So, how do you know if someone is a true disciples of Christ? Well, if they love one another, says the Bible, and maybe, if his/her life centers on Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ is all they talk about, Jesus Christ is all they live for. Now, if someone says they’re a Christian, but their life centers on what God can do for them (not much different from the Pagans, that is) and about pursuing their dreams to be worldly wealthy, then what is really more important in their life? Is it Jesus Christ or is it their own worldly desires then?
      We’re not asking Joel to be more like other leaders. We’re asking him to read the Bible and stay true to it. The thing is, he has so many followers and they believe whatever he says. So, when he’s saying something that the Bible doesn’t say, and the followers assume it is from the Bible, he’s just leading people astray. Can God work through this? Of course he can, but that doesn’t mean Joel should go on like this. He must repent. Everytime I see him on the internet, I pray for him that he will repent, cuz this whole thing really saddens me.

  4. shannybelle says:

    How is this not judgmental??? “Joel Osteen Likes God…He just doesn’t like Jesus”

    Why does joel have to follow in pauls footsteps? Have you once thought for just a moment…maybe God wants to use joel osteen in a different way?

    • paperthinhymn says:

      Hi Shannybel, thanks for commenting on the blog. Here is a question for you, do you think its important, or unimportant, for a pastor to preach that Jesus Christ died for people’s sins and if they repent of their sins and believe he is God, that they will be saved?

    • Born4Battle says:

      Why should Joel O follow in the Apostle Paul’s footsteps? Are you serious? May to remain faithful to the true gospel that Christ died for our sins?

  5. shannybelle says:

    Of course I do 🙂 But don’t limit God to how he wants to get through to people. If that is through joel osteen giving hope to the hopeless to plant a seed, then we should rejoice in that. Heres something for you to think about 🙂

    Luke 10:25–28 (NASB95)
    25 And a lawyer stood up and put Him to the test, saying, “Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?” 26 And He said to him, “What is written in the Law? How does it read to you?” 27 And he answered, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your strength, and with all your mind; and your neighbor as yourself.” 28 And He said to him, “You have answered correctly; do this and you will live.”
    I know that joel osteen believes in having a personal relationship with Jesus Christ..on his website he says: “Jesus died on the cross and shed His blood for our sins. We believe that salvation is found by placing our faith in what Jesus did for us on the cross. We believe Jesus rose from the dead and is coming again. Every believer should be in a growing relationship with Jesus by obeying God’s Word, yielding to the Holy Spirit and by being conformed to the image of Christ.… as children of God, we are overcomers and more than conquerors and God intends for each of us to experience the abundant life He has in store for us.”

    I used to go to a church that didn’t do the alter call every sunday. I remember how mad that made me at the time…thinking what if someone walked away not being able to ask Jesus in their hearts. But here is the thing I learned. You have to trust God…His ways are not our own. How he chooses to reach someone is different than what we may think at times.

    • Shannybelle, that makes it even more sad. So Joel Osteen has it on his site, but that’s the only place he has it, He doesn’t write about it. He doesn’t preach it. He doesn’t teach it. He doesn’t tweet it. Also, what good is hope if it is false hope? Joel Osteen tells people starving and dying that if they just have enough obedience and faith that God will promote them and make them wealthy and give them good self-esteem. Do you agree with this?

  6. shannybelle says:

    Have you listened to every single sermon and read every single book to make that kind of statement?

  7. shannybelle says:

    Dustin, I have to apologize for coming off the way I did earlier. My heart in this was just to show a different perspective. God’s heart and his love and the great things he is doing through joel osteens ministry. God created us with free will and we are all so different. We are passionate about what we believe. There are things that we are going to disagree on but one thing remains and that is the heart of God for his people. His love and his sacrifice is what gives us freedom 🙂 Blessings to you!

  8. shannybelle says:

    It just makes me sad to see that everything I have said has been overlooked in a sense. We see what we want to see and hear what we want to hear. Out of everything I last said…you got that he gives false hope to people and does not practice what he states on his website in every sermon. Do you think there is a chance you could be taking what he says and does out of context and missing the whole point? A bigger picture might I add? You said he dosent write, preach or tweet about it? Ok…that is why I asked if you watch all of his sermons and read all of his books to make that statement.

  9. shannybelle the reason false prophets thrive is because of people like you. I am sorry for sounding so harsh but its true, Joel preaches many good things but Joel doesn’t preach the gospel of Christ, He gives hope to people but its not hope in Christ for the salvation of their souls and yes I have listened to Joel for many years so I know what I am talking about… Just because a man stands on a pulpit and mentions the word god and the name jesus doesn’t make him Christian and just because he calls his gatherings a church doesn’t make it one. the main problem we have is that people do not know the scriptures and therefore do not have discernment, they can’t distinguish what is biblical from what is shallow and unbiblical, their theology is based on sound bites and Christian sounding themes which are more like some self help and new age nonsense. Joel is not a messenger of God because he doesn’t preach the gospel of God, he is an encourager and a motivator and seems like a genuinely nice guy but He is far from Christian and the message he has is not the message of the bible which is salvation from sin and hell through repentance and faith in Jesus Christ alone by the grace of God the Father…

    • Ron…And Olsteen has done no great works. If you want to have a strategy, for Pete’s sake, try Tony Robbins, Dennis Waitley or Jim Rohn. Those guys are great worldly strategists. And they don’t mix G-D with the world’s measure for success.

      And I guarantee you (because I know some) most people who are glued to Osteen, Hickey “preachers” (I don’t think Osteen even has a theological degree!) are extremely shallow in basic biblical doctrine and understanding therein, and certainly there is no excuse for that – here in America. If you know Osteen and have never heard of Spurgeon or Sproul – something is REAL wrong in your life!

  10. shannybelle says:

    And I am sorry but to me that sounds like a religious spirit…I respect your opinion but it is simply that. I think it is a dangerous place to be in when you start coming against a man of God and say he is a false prophet. I to have listened to joel’s sermons and read a few books and he is far from a false prophet…and I come from a church that believes in speaking in tongues, healing the sick, prophesying, and salvation through christ. Its a radical church just like who jesus was. There is freedom to be found in the love of God! A freedom I think you are missing. We just have different perspective. It’s fine you believe that way…but it doesen’t make it right or wrong.

    Religious spirits breed bondage. It produces condemnation and blocks true liberty (see Gal. 5:1; Rom. 8:1.)

    • Born4Battle says:

      You said: “Religious spirits breed bondage. It produces condemnation and blocks true liberty (see Gal. 5:1; Rom. 8:1.)”

      Gal 5:1 – It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery.

      Rom 8:1 – Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus,

      Perhaps you will enlighten us all concerning how you tie your assertion concerning ‘religious spirits’ to the passages you referenced? I’d love to hear from you on that. Perhaps define what you mean by ‘religious spirit’? How does that apply to the author of this blog stating the obvious about Joel Osteen?

  11. Mike Wiley says:

    Thanks for doing this. It would be interesting do have a survey done of his sermons as well, but that would be time-intensive.

    Osteen strikes me more as a “New Thought” pastor (as differentiated from New Age-influenced, such as the Bethel Church) in the vein of Mary Mannin Morrisey of the now-defunct Living Enrichment Center in Oregon (see Wikipedia). Positive thinking and new “knowledge” replaced Gospel redemption theology.

    There is a huge whiff of Gnosticism in all of this, the idea is that people can understand and know that they possess a “divine essence” and that all they have to do to receive it is realize it.

    It is really diabolical, but it allows people to avoid the Cross and still claim to be Christian, which appears to be the real goal here.

  12. shannybelle says:

    And to even say false prophets thrive because of people like me? That right there is a judgment and lacks discernment in itself. You don’t know my heart, nor do you know me.

  13. shannybelle says:

    The fact you all are getting so upset just shows there is a religious spirit behind it. I feel sorry for you guys….your not walking in true freedom but are in bondage.

  14. Born4Battle says:


    Here’s the Apostle Paul:

    2 And so it was with me, brothers and sisters. When I came to you, I did not come with eloquence or human wisdom as I proclaimed to you the testimony about God. 2 For I resolved to know nothing while I was with you except Jesus Christ and him crucified. 3 I came to you in weakness with great fear and trembling. 4 My message and my preaching were not with wise and persuasive words, but with a demonstration of the Spirit’s power, 5 so that your faith might not rest on human wisdom, but on God’s power.” 1 Cor 2:1-5

    Here’s Paul’s definition of the gospel:

    15 Now, brothers and sisters, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand. 2 By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain. 3 For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures.” 1 Cor 15:1-5

    There are a lot of ministry websites that have a cookie cutter system of belief that dies in fact include an accurate definition of the gospel but at the same time you will never hear the true gospel from the ‘stage’. All you hear is how you can have your best life now, how you can fulfill you’re your innermost dreams, and being ‘positive’enough to make it all happen. You won’t hear Paul’s gospel message being preached because these ‘men of God’ are smart enough to know that if they ever got to the true gospel, the unbelievers in their theater seats will catch on to the ‘bait and switch’ and run for the door.

  15. The old “you got a religious spirit” thought terminating cliche and avoidance technique.,, aaaay. This article contains empirical proof that Joel does not preach the gospel, Jesus Christ or his cross. And all some can do is dig themselves further into cognitive dissonance.

  16. Shanny. What is more wrong than having the opportunity to preach the gospel to millions and refusing to do so and instead preach a gospel that just makes people feel better about themselves? That is the problem. The second issue is people like you who protect and make excuses for wolves

  17. Dave Nellis says:

    I’m curious, out of 806 tweets, what is the appropriate number of times TO mention Jesus? A bit of a pedantitic question but I know there are some that would that would make this claim if it were not 100% of time, at least for a preacher.

  18. shannybelle says:

    Most of you are in a tiny little box that anything outside of that box is wrong, scary, and false prophet stuff. I have a personal relationship with my heavenly father and HE is the only one who matters. He is the only one that can see the genuineness of a mans heart. If you go back to the source everything always makes sense. Sorry if I offended any of you…its just another perspective outside of your own. I have read this blog to a few people who have gotten the same impression I first did when i read it. Everyone is entitled to their OWN opinion!

  19. shannybelle says:

    @herman once again someone making a judgment toward me…”The second issue is people like you who protect and make excuses for wolves” Your judging me and your judging a man who you believe is a wolf in sheeps clothing. Fine. Not everyone is going to agree with you. Stop being religious and maybe have an actual conversation with God and see what he thinks about all of this 🙂

  20. shannybelle says:

    Leaders in the church get attacked all the time. Its because we all have a freedom to choose what we believe and what we dont believe. Do you think they really let this kind of stuff affect them? No! Jesus was persecuted for what he did from the religious leaders. Do you think he cared? Nope!

  21. shannybelle says:

    The religious spirit:

    Jealousy and Envy
    of anointed ministers of God.

    They considered that if Jesus were truly from God he would recognise and honor them.
    1 Corinthians 1:12 “I am of Paul, I am of Apollos”.
    “But they, measuring themselves by themselves, and comparing themselves among themselves, are not wise.” (2 Cor. 10:12),.

    What does it matter who God works through? We are making disciples for Jesus. If we have anything it comes from Him. Can we rejoice when God blesses someone else, or do we immediately feel bad and try to find fault with them. Remember Cain’s attitude to Abel when his sacrifice was rejected, but Abel’s was accepted.

    Despising people
    “But this crowd which does not know the law is accursed”. (John 7:49)
    Jesus spoke this parable to some who trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others. (Luke 18:9)
    The Pharisees considered themselves better than the bulk of the people because of their knowledge of the law.
    We make a serious error if we consider ourselves better than others on the basis of race, education, knowledge, good looks or any such thing.

    Placing more emphasis on their traditions than on the plain teachings, commandments and declarations of the Scripture
    Jesus told us to preach the gospel. (Mark 16:15). People are dying out there. Why are we fighting about what kind of clothes we should wear, and how important this or that practice should be in church life?

    Blindness to the work of God.
    Then the blind and the lame came to Him in the temple, and He healed them. But when the chief priests and scribes saw the wonderful things He did, and teh children crying out in the temple and saying, “Hosanna to the Son of David!” they were indignant
    They could not rejoice in the healing of the blind and lame. It had become unimportant to them. They were spiritually blind.

    “So they watched Him closely, whether He would heal him on the Sabbath, so that they might accuse Him.”
    Mark 3:2.
    They were hoping to find something to accuse Jesus with.

  22. Born4Battle says:

    Defining a religious spirit as one of jealously and envy and then accusing individuals of having a religious spirit means that you are able to see into those individuals’ hearts, something you find deplorable in others – seeing into men’s’ hearts, which is also verboten in your theology since it is by nature ‘judgmental. Even if that were true of the ‘accused’, you add being envious of anointed men of God. Sir, I ask you how any supposedly ‘anointed’ man of God would continuously preach a false gospel? I suggest that if there is an anointing, it’s not from God, which makes your whole argument moot. I’m not going to take the time to reply to every other point you are tryng to make. Your beginning assumption that Joel O is a man anointed by God is laughable on its face. A false is gospel no gospel and to be declared anathema. At least that’s the Apostle Paul’s opinion.

  23. Max Randall says:

    Shanny has defined JO as being an “anointed minister of God”. Back off people. No amount of biblical evidence to the contrary is going to change her mind. 😉

    • Jon Perry says:

      Shannybelle I am sure you mean well but you have been badly deceived. You keep warning people about judging and talking about people’s hearts, these phrases are common today and are not biblical. As Christians we are commanded to judge over and over again, just not hypocritically, but we must reprove and rebuke and be discerning and because you have not done this you have been led into error. As for the heart, it is deceitful above all things and desperately wicked and you should never listen to it, only listen to the Spirit of God and the bible. Osteen prays on people like you and is nothing more that a new age counterfeit posing as a Christian. He denies the truth and refuses to mention repentance, why? Because he would lose most of his church. Run a mile from this false gospel I urge you.

  24. Jon Perry says:

    Bottom line is this. Would a member of Joel’s church get saved through the message he preaches? How could he!? He is not taught that he needs to be, He would only be interested in improving his current situation materially. There is no mention of sin in Joel’s place or the need to be saved only that we are all winners and if you are not then you are not properly utilizing God’s power properly. That is heresy and will save no one. Spin it a million ways it will always come but the same false gospel.

  25. Regarding the religious spirit; consider Osteen and T.D. Jakes who say, “Surround yourself with those who don’t compete, but will revel in your success and see your ascent as a reflection of possibilities.” (paraphrased)

    Consider the Hypocrite self righteous religious Jew who while praying looks down on the publican who is repenting of his “sins”. Sinners, prostitutes and thieves seemed good enough for Jesus to be around.

  26. shannybelle says:

    Jon, I could say the same thing about you being deceived. I understand what you are saying but let God be the judge of him. Let God work how he is going to work through people. Don’t think that I am ignorant or naive in this area. I am just giving my opinion. I grew up christian, my dad was a pastor. I am very educated in this area and know my heavenly father well enough and know the holy spirit well enough inside of me to see a different perspective. Really the heart of God. A perspective most of you think is wrong…and a naive person who is supportive of the “false gospel” and a “false prophet” according to your standards. Most of you think that anyone that does not agree with you must be wrong or blinded. Well I could say the same thing to you right?

  27. shannybelle says:

    In 1 Corinthians chapter 5, we find what the Apostle Paul taught the believers at Corinth about judging individuals within their Church. The background of this particular passage involves a man who was a member of their Church and living in open immorality with “his father’s wife” (vs.1). Apparently the woman was the man’s step-mother and because of his esteemed position in the community, this blatant sin was being ignored. When it was brought to Paul’s attention, he minced no words in condemning the immorality and demanding that the leadership of the Church turn the man “over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh”! (vs.5). In other words, excommunication–removing the privileges of membership and expulsion from the assembly–was strongly urged by Paul. This meant punishing the man by putting him outside the spiritual protection of the local Church and, in effect, relegating him back to Satan’s domain–where his flesh (carnal nature) would come under demonic attack. All of this was done with the hope that the man would seek repentance, God’s forgiveness, and restoration to fellowship with the other believers. The story had a “happy ending,” because that is exactly what the man did after being disciplined. But the main point we must not miss is found in Paul’s solemn words of verses 11 through 13, where he literally exhorts the brethren to exercise spiritual judgment in the matter:

    “But now I write to you not to associate with any one who bears the name of [Christian] brother, if he is known to be guilty of immorality or greed, or is an idolater–that is, whose soul is devoted to any object that usurps the place of God–or [is] a person with a foul tongue (railing, abusing, reviling, slandering), or is a drunkard, or a swindler, or a robber. [No] you must not so much as eat with such a person. (12) What [business] of mine is it and what right have I to judge outsiders? (Unbelievers, non-members) Is it not those inside [the church] upon whom you are to pass disciplinary judgment–passing censuring sentence on them [as the facts require]? (13) God alone sits in judgment on those who are outside. Drive out that wicked one from among you–expel him from your church”

    This is just a different way at looking at things…there is more to what paul is saying besides judging others. There is a background and more to be discovered here.

    And to Joel is not a prophet, he would probably tell you that himself. That is not his area. So to call him a false prophet is quite bold when he isn’t even being used in that way

    • Born4Battle says:

      False Prophets are people who teach false doctrine and lead people away from the true gospel message and teaching of God found in the Bible. Jesus warned about false prophets in Matt. 24:24 stating that in the last days many false prophets would arise and deceive, if possible, even the elect. Examples of modern-day false prophets are Joseph Smith (Mormonism), Charles Taze Russell (Jehovah’s Witnesses), Mary Baker Eddy (Christian Science), etc. Each of them distorts the truth sufficiently to result in damnation.

      Joel can easily be added to the above list.

  28. shannybelle says:

    In three words, blunt and absolute, Jesus commanded us, “Do not judge” (Matt. 7:1). But did he really mean that we should never judge others? He goes on to suggest that it’s not the act of judging but the attitude with which we do it that God is most concerned about—”For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged” (7:2).
    There are other Scriptures that either cloud or shed light on the issue. Paul told the Christians in Rome not to judge one another (Rom. 14:13) but taught the Corinthians that they were to judge sinful believers and leave people outside the church to God (1 Cor. 5:12-13). James said he who judges his brother speaks against the law (4:11) but also implied that our judgments of others must be done with mercy (2:12-13).

    Common sense suggests that if no one ever judged other people, there would be no real human community. In a sinful world, no community can exist for long where nobody is ever held accountable: no teacher would grade a student’s performance; no citizen would sit on a jury or call a failed leader to account. And, when you come to think of it, nobody would ever forgive anyone for wrongs he had done; we only forgive people for what we blame them, and we blame them only after we have judged them.

    I would suggest that, in our day and age, we need more—not less—judgment. Modern Americans suffer from a fear of judging. Passing judgment on the behavior of fellow human beings is considered an act of medieval, undemocratic intolerance.

    Why? Because, our culture tells us, we are all flawed people, and people with flaws have no right to judge other people’s flaws. Furthermore, modern Americans do not believe that there are objective standards by which to judge. And where there are no standards, there is nothing by which to measure behavior.

    Of course, the person who takes Jesus at all seriously does not kowtow to modern relativism. Judgment, for Christians, is an important piece of work that God calls us to do, especially in a world going morally haywire.

    When a person judges, she also forms an opinion. But an opinion is not necessarily the same as a judgment. Opinions are often framed by our fears, pride, or ignorance. If all we had were human opinions, we might agree with those who say we should never judge.

    Judgments are opinions that we form only after we have made a serious effort to know the facts, and, for those of us who are Christians, only after we have consulted the moral teachings of Scripture and prayed for Spirit-informed discernment. Any lazy or biased fool can have opinions; making judgments is the hard work of responsible and compassionate people.

    For all of these reasons, common sense indicates that Jesus could not have meant that we are never to make judgments on what people, including ourselves, are up to.

    But our common sense is hardly the litmus test of what Jesus meant, for in the end it is his Word that we live by. It’s helpful, then, to consider Jesus’ bold command in its biblical context.

    Jesus may have been moved to speak as he did by the haughty way the Pharisees had of judging people. In Matthew 5:20 through 7:6, Jesus warns his disciples against following the traditions and practices of the Pharisees, who judged others as if they themselves were beyond judgment. What’s more, they judged people by the letter, not the spirit, of the law.

    So, most likely, Jesus meant, “Do not judge at all if you judge others the way the Pharisees do. If you do judge people this way, you will be judged with the same severity.” Jesus’ intent comes out in his metaphor of motes and beams (Matt. 7:3-5). We all have beams in our eyes, so to speak; to judge people for the little motes stuck in their eyes while we have big beams in our own is devilish arrogance as well as folly.

    Nobody with a beam in his eye can see things clearly. He is dangerously low on discernment. And, since we all have this distorted perspective, we need either to be very humble or else leave judging to God alone. We have a moral responsibility to judge the moral behavior of others—but only if we are humbly aware that we will sometimes be dead wrong and never totally right. We must remember that our ability to judge is limited and especially that we are sinful people who will ourselves, one day, come under judgment.

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